Rutherford called them the Evil Slaves. It is great to have a deep thinker of scripture to have a discussion with. Note: This cannot mean that Jehovah (Yahweh) is the God of false gods. So Jesus is using “theos” as a translation of “elohiym.” We know that angels, Abraham, the judges, etc. They base everything on the Bible. Jan thank you so much for your reply. All hear this announcement over the speaker but only John Smith see the need to respond. “I am” simply describes that it is you who is going to the store. Elohim Created Let me... –, am i missing something?...a resurrection,means you have to die first,before you get resurrected,and only then is it possible,to die a second death,unless you are of... –, Thank you Richard for your reply .will get back about family name . The cart has gone before the horse. This Hebrew word ELOHIM is found in Ex 7:1 where Jehovah told Moses, “I have made you a god, You have: made him a little lower than the angels (elohim), and have crowned him with glory and honor.—Ps 8:5, And the children of Heth answered Abraham, saying to him, Hear us, my lord: you are a mighty (elohim) prince among us.—Ge 23:5,6, I have made you a god (elohim) to Pharaoh.—Ex 7:1, His master shall bring him to the judges ( elohim ).—Ex 21:6, Deut. So hopefully this explains that we are not discussing people but IDEAS here and the governing body entity and it’s corporation. Also, God can not die and resurrect himself. That this is so can be seen from Hebrews 1:8.9, which quotes from Psalm 45:6,7. Of course, one will not find the term “plural intensive” in the Bible, but the usage that is called by that term is demonstrated many times in the Bible. Reslight – Thanks for this helpful addition of information to the study. So we can conclude that “theos” as a translation of Psa 82:6 does not apply to false gods. It is used in John 10:35 of the worshippers of Jehovah.
. Notice the usage of this word in Scripture: ANGELS CALLED ELOHIM 10:17, “For Jehovah your God, he is God of gods [elohim), and Lord of lords, the great God, the mighty, and the awesome, who regardeth not persons, nor taketh bribes.” May I suggest you have it backward. My comment in this area is rather brief and I don’t know if you saw my comment elsewhere on this. Rude or colloquial translations are usually marked in red or orange. Definitions.net. It is also a message we need to take to heart as well. Thus Jesus recognized that ELOHIM in Deuteronomy 6:13 is being used a singular, nor plural, and thus it should be “God”, not “Gods”. Results: 819. So not only does his name apply to his eternal self-existence, but also his unchangeableness throughout the course of history. I think perhaps you are not aware that we don’t believe in the Trinity. Examples are used only to help you translate the word or expression searched in various contexts. “The Father is greater than I am”. Neither should one need a book to affirm who Christ is. Jerome, You are correct that Jesus is the Son of God and that the Holy Spirit reveals Him. Regarding your statement: The Trinity is nowhere taught or to be found There is no scripture in the Bible that says that God is composed of three persons. –, Thank you Peter for your reply .I will get back to comment on some other doctrines.i do favour the Bible students for their kind responses... –, Hello John,I was a JW For over 40 years in Australia.I found the Bible Students in 2010,& Have never Looked back since!We have Bretheren all... –, Fruits of the Spirit / Christian Behavior, EX-JW FROM SIX SCREENS OF WT CONFERENCE CALL INTERVIEWS BIBLE STUDENTS, Jesus Last Days and His Foremost Concerns, http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/nas/elohiym.html, Interview – How David Stein was disfellowshipped from the Jehovah’s Witnesses Organization by trying to save his father from Apostasy, Wed Study – Join Us – THE ATONEMENT BETWEEN GOD AND MAN – Volume 5 of Studies in the Scriptures, History of the early Watchtower Organization from its Beginnings to the Rutherford Schism, Who Will Survive Armageddon? Benjamin Breckenridge Warfield, The Person and Work of Christ, p. 53.: “As a word, “god” has a variety of applications. ABBA’s powerful ability to bring his promises to complete fulfillment because he will always present to fulfill them. John 8:58 (World English Bible), “Jesus said to them, “Most certainly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM.””, Many Christians have been deceived by modern translators who dishonestly place the words “I am” in capital letters. We see the same thing at work in the way the passage gets translated today where the passage is understood by modern translators to be a declaration by God placing himself outside of and above time itself. Hi Jan thanks for commenting. “Theos” is applied to Satan in 2 Cor 4:4 (ASV), “the god [“theos”] of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving.”, 2. . There is no mention of Trinity in the Bible, but there us a teaching of the Godhead and we are told the Holy Spirit is God’s Spirit, not a ‘force.’ The three are named as One name in Matthew 28:19, which supports the three as One. Mus. The Septuagint is the ancient Greek translation of the Old Testament. Nevertheless, as a plural masculine noun, the word ELOHIM means “gods”. In regards to the trinity doctrine , There was a study published of more than 500 scriptures refuting it . Neither will you find “plural masculine noun” in the Bible. Thank you. Deut. This page provides all possible translations of the word theos in the Hebrew language. This is acknowledged in a backhand way in the definition available at http://biblelexicon.org/john/8-58.htm, where the definitions include “have been” and “was.” The Peshitta interlinear, which you can go to here: http://www.peshitta.org/ , translates the Aramaic literally as “I was.” so if Jesus spoke in Aramaic on the occasion, as some believe and certainly was possible, then we see Jesus only made a claim of a prior existence, something the Pharisees considered blasphemous anyway. It is sort of like a message over an intercom that asks John Smith to come to the counter. He is bigger than we can comprehend with our finite minds and under the New Covenant we are to be baptized in His Name: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Husband and wife before one flesh not one being. (Note: English names which are not derived from Hebrew names are normally In the Greek, do we find a plural form of the Greek word often transliterated as THEOS? It appears to me they are separate, distinct persons. The Hebrew book of Shemot which we call Exodus was originally wrote in Paleo-Hebrew by Mosheh(Moses). What is so interesting is the point you brought up, the use in the LXX of ο ων. The implication of this is that the translators understood God to be declaring that he is the existing one, the only one who owes his existence to no one as he has life unto himself. Thank you Jan. Jesus did not say “I am going…” or “I am doing…” anything. It should be obvious that in Psalm 45:6,7, that ELOHIM, although plural in form, is being used as though it was a singular noun, which is what is meant by the term “plural intensive”. The Jews fully understood what this meant. The following comment was made in our Contact Us Section. Also, consider that saying treating Satan as if he were a god doesn’t mean the true Theos is calling Satan God. Since theological bias always seeps into a translation no matter how good the attempt to avoid it we are likely looking at an example of a difficult passage rendered according to what the translator understood the message to be. This is why our Creator God, Elohim in Hebrew or Theos in Greek, has a personal name, YHWH translated as I Am. The LXX(70) translation was done for the Greek speaking Jews in Alexandros. For clarification purposes, I am wondering if you see a distinction between the persons of the Father and the Son? Hence Jesus was not quoting Exodus 3:14 and using the words “I am” as a title for Jehovah and Himself. From trinitarian scholarly literature a clear distinction is made between the person of the Father and the person of the Son. Jan. Included in these are, World English Bible (above), The New King James Version, The Amplified Bible, and The New Living Translation. And the children of Heth answered Abraham, saying to him, Hear us, my lord: you are a mighty (elohim) prince among us.—Ge 23:5,6, MOSES CALLED ELOHIM You have: made him a little lower than the angels (elohim), and have crowned him with glory and honor.—Ps 8:5, ABRAHAM CALLED ELOHIM Satan is the god of this word because he reigns in sinners hearts, but he is NOT God. The Jews who did this translation work were bilingual in Assyrian Hebrew and Koine Greek. We can see by how this rendered in the New Testament. Notice Acts 21:39 (AV), says, “But Paul said, I <1473> am <1510> (5748) a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia.” Paul used the exact same Greek words as Jesus to say “I am.” Should we then take this to mean that the Apostle Paul too is Jehovah, the great “I AM?” Of course not. Many scholars call this usage by other terms, but it still all amounts to the same thing, a plural word that is used as though it were singular. See my study: Thank you. Its Greek counterpart “theos” likewise has a broad usage. In Genesis, God said lets make man in our image. I am glad that we have an agreement that the Father and the Son are separate persons. Online Hebrew Classes | Conversational Hebrew. Perhaps you would like to respond here on our website. Deuteronomy 6:13 – Thou shalt fear Jehovah thy Gods [ELOHIM]; and him shalt [singular] thou serve, and shalt swear by his name [not their names]. “I am ascending to my father and your father and to my God and to your God.”, John 14:28 For example, if you were to say, “I am going to the store.” That doesn’t mean that you believe that you are Jehovah. And if Jesus is being called ELOHIM in Psalm 45:6, this would also mean that Jesus is ELOHIM. As you pointed out, John had access to the LXX and probably knew this verse well. 7:14 where the LXX uses παρθενος, a virgin, to render the Hebrew word עלמה which means any woman of marriageable age up to the point she has her first child regardless of her sexual status. The Jews wanted to stone Jesus, because they claimed, “You, being a man, make Yourself out to be god (“theos,” John 10:33). Friends of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Actually, I only say what the Bible says. See also: The Bible teaches who Jesus is, the Spirit reveals who Jesus is, still men who refuse to give Him His rightful place deny Him. According to Hab 1:12 YHWH does not die and the very meaning of his name establishes this fact. Experts often criticize the quality of some parts, a classic being Matthew’s quotation from it of Is. It is located here, where the subject was also being discussed: https://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/2012/09/08/75-of-the-original-bible-students-left-the-watchtower-by-1931/comment-page-1/#comment-61200.
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